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Average lifespan of a business jet?

 
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GrtArtiste
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote



There's a rumor floating around the office that my company is
considering purchase of a used bizjet. They have a reputation for
trying to do things on the cheap and seem to be partial to Citations
because we're located in a town that has a Cessna repair facility.
I've seen multiple listings for such planes varying from 15-20 years
and older with TT ranging from as few as 3700 up to 10000-12000. So I
wonder...how old (how many hours) does such a plane get before it has
(generally speaking) outlived it's usefulness? Depending on what they
decide to buy, I'll have to determine whether or not I want to fly in
it.

GrtArtiste<a non-pilot, not wanting to end up like Payne Stewart

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Michelle P
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote



GrtArtiste wrote:
Quote:
There's a rumor floating around the office that my company is
considering purchase of a used bizjet. They have a reputation for
trying to do things on the cheap and seem to be partial to Citations
because we're located in a town that has a Cessna repair facility.
I've seen multiple listings for such planes varying from 15-20 years
and older with TT ranging from as few as 3700 up to 10000-12000. So I
wonder...how old (how many hours) does such a plane get before it has
(generally speaking) outlived it's usefulness? Depending on what they
decide to buy, I'll have to determine whether or not I want to fly in
it.

GrtArtiste<a non-pilot, not wanting to end up like Payne Stewart

Mostly depends on how well it was maintained.

Michelle
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GrtArtiste
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

On Feb 13, 8:37 pm, Michelle P
<thecatsandiSPAMMEIFYOUD...@earthlink.net> wrote:

Quote:

Mostly depends on how well it was maintained.
Michelle

Of course it does. Let's assume all required maintenance was above-
average in quality. I guess what I'm looking for is an age-hour limit
for my comfort level.

GrtArtiste
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Mike Spera
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

GrtArtiste wrote:

Quote:
There's a rumor floating around the office that my company is
considering purchase of a used bizjet. They have a reputation for
trying to do things on the cheap and seem to be partial to Citations
because we're located in a town that has a Cessna repair facility.
I've seen multiple listings for such planes varying from 15-20 years
and older with TT ranging from as few as 3700 up to 10000-12000. So I
wonder...how old (how many hours) does such a plane get before it has
(generally speaking) outlived it's usefulness? Depending on what they
decide to buy, I'll have to determine whether or not I want to fly in
it.

GrtArtiste<a non-pilot, not wanting to end up like Payne Stewart


Not sure this is a go/no-go question. As the age goes up, the liklihood
of systems failing does also. If the plane has a history of being
patched up (overhauls and repairs on the original systems), that is
probably going to cost you. If the jet has seen major upgrades to newer
systems when something fails (new avionics, engine upgrades, airframe
overhauls), you may find a sweet spot in the financials of owning that
plane.

In general, most business jets have surprisingly little time on them.

But it does not take many $30,000 heated windshields to bust the bank. I
really never equated "cheap" with "jets". Maybe someone with a lot more
cash than I do would.

Good Luck,
Mike
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Doug
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

The number of pressurizations is one factor. Something like 10,000
(that would be 10,000 pressurizations, not hours) is getting up there.
The other item is engine rebuilds are horrendously expensive and can
swamp the cost of purchase. Don't believe Cessna's figures on per hour
running either. They are way optimistic.

Having said all that, there are some very useful, well used business
jets out there.

My advice would be to get an expert. in CESSNA CITATIONS. Probably a
Citation mechanic, and pay him to help you decide which one.
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Private
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

"Doug" <anothername (AT) access4less (DOT) net> wrote in message
news:1171420273.828757.60140 (AT) h3g2000cwc (DOT) googlegroups.com...
Quote:
The number of pressurizations is one factor. Something like 10,000
(that would be 10,000 pressurizations, not hours) is getting up there.
snip


I have recently flown a 737 with over 74000 cycles.
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Montblack
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

("Private" wrote)
Quote:
The number of pressurizations is one factor. Something like 10,000 (that
would be 10,000 pressurizations, not hours) is getting up there.

I have recently flown a 737 with over 74000 cycles.


Is taking off, flying up to altitude, then landing, one cycle?


10 Cycles Per Day (x) ...

10 years (3,650 days) = 36,500 cycles

20 years (x) ..10 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles
25 years (x) ...8 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles
40 years (x) ...5 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles

WOW!


Montblack
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jc
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

Montblack wrote:

Quote:
("Private" wrote)

I have recently flown a 737 with over 74000 cycles.


Is taking off, flying up to altitude, then landing, one cycle?


10 Cycles Per Day (x) ...

10 years (3,650 days) = 36,500 cycles

20 years (x) ..10 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles
25 years (x) ...8 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles
40 years (x) ...5 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles


How many cycles did the Aloha convertible have? IIRC it was something like
90,000 but a 737 might be designed to different life expectations
--

regards

jc

LEGAL - I don't believe what I wrote and neither should you. Sobriety and/or
sanity of the author is not guaranteed

EMAIL - jcamp (AT) pacific (DOT) net and news (AT) perentie (DOT) net are not valid email
addresses. news2x at perentie is valid for a while.
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RST Engineering
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

Not a problem, Monty...we had a couple of Fat Alberts on the line when I
"retired" from PSA in the late '60s. The 737 was BUILT for the milk
runs...our longest run was an hour; many of them were 45 minutes or so. You
can get a dozen cycles a day in at that rate and that was 40 years ago.

A "cycle" is depart, gear up, gear down, arrive. 99.999% of the time that
also means a pressurization.

Jim

"Montblack" <Y4_NOT!...4monty4blacky (AT) yyvisyyiy (DOT) comy> wrote in message
news:12t564hd0bk2e8b (AT) corp (DOT) supernews.com...
Quote:
("Private" wrote)
The number of pressurizations is one factor. Something like 10,000 (that
would be 10,000 pressurizations, not hours) is getting up there.

I have recently flown a 737 with over 74000 cycles.


Is taking off, flying up to altitude, then landing, one cycle?


10 Cycles Per Day (x) ...

10 years (3,650 days) = 36,500 cycles

20 years (x) ..10 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles
25 years (x) ...8 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles
40 years (x) ...5 c.p.d. = 73,000 cycles

WOW!


Montblack
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The Visitor
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:36 am    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

Maybe try not to be the first passenger then?

I would also/moreso worry about pilot training/qualifications. Egos and
fancy outfits do not help when something does go wrong.




GrtArtiste wrote:
Quote:
There's a rumor floating around the office that my company is
considering purchase of a used bizjet. They have a reputation for
trying to do things on the cheap and seem to be partial to Citations
because we're located in a town that has a Cessna repair facility.
I've seen multiple listings for such planes varying from 15-20 years
and older with TT ranging from as few as 3700 up to 10000-12000. So I
wonder...how old (how many hours) does such a plane get before it has
(generally speaking) outlived it's usefulness? Depending on what they
decide to buy, I'll have to determine whether or not I want to fly in
it.

GrtArtiste<a non-pilot, not wanting to end up like Payne Stewart
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Guest






PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: Average lifespan of a business jet? Reply with quote

One other major item that you need to do with whatever you decide to
purchase is to take the time run down the list of recommended and
required inspection or overhaul items due within the next couple of
thousand hours and get a handle on the costs of them. You don't want
to drop a bunch on an jet that turns up needing a required inspection
or overhaul that rivals the purchase price.

I had an aquaitenence that bought a jet for a fantastic price, but
ended up grounding it 300 hours later when a mandatory inspection came
due....the labor cost exceeded what he paid for the jet. He though it
was a very simple inspection, but it wasn't and it really bit him in
the butt when got the estimate.
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