AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Air Force One to Hawaii Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Planes, gliders and flying in Australia View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Paul Blair Guest Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:14 pm    Post subject: Air Force One to Hawaii The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Could a 747 take off from Canberra with enough fuel to do that? Or would it need a drink along the way? Paul Blair Canberra ------------------------------- Paul Blair [email]pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au[/email] Back to top Frank Guest Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii "Paul Blair" <pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au> wrote Quote: The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Could a 747 take off from Canberra with enough fuel to do that? Or would it need a drink along the way? Paul Blair Canberra ------------------------------- Paul Blair [email]pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au[/email] I was wondering that myself. It did fly to HNL non-stop. Back to top Andrew Hennell Guest Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:14:39 GMT, Paul Blair <pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au> wrote: Quote: The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Could a 747 take off from Canberra with enough fuel to do that? Or would it need a drink along the way? Wouldn't really matter what it took off with. http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=131 explains: "Principal differences between the VC-25 and the standard Boeing 747, other than the number of passengers carried, are the state of the art navigation, electronic and communications equipment, its interior configuration and furnishings, self-contained baggage loader, front and aft air-stairs, and the capability for in-flight refueling." I guess it'll take a drink mid-flight. Back to top peter Guest Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii "GB" <gb (AT) sonicresearch (DOT) mailme.org> wrote Quote: A couple-o links... Brief specs: (including range) http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/military/af1/af1spec.html Route/Distance: http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=CBR-HNL G I don't think anyone doubted that the aircraft had the range, but I think the query was if the aircraft could depart CBR with the fuel required, as CBR could be classified as Hot, High and most importantly Short. Peter Back to top David Bromage Guest Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii Andrew Hennell wrote: Quote: http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=131 explains: "Principal differences between the VC-25 and the standard Boeing 747, other than the number of passengers carried, are the state of the art navigation, electronic and communications equipment, its interior configuration and furnishings, self-contained baggage loader, front and aft air-stairs, and the capability for in-flight refueling." I guess it'll take a drink mid-flight. They NEVER refuel a VC-25 with the President on board. Cheers David Back to top Tony Lathouras Guest Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 2:23 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii "David Bromage" <dbromage (AT) omni (DOT) com.NOSPAMTHANKYOU.au> wrote Quote: Andrew Hennell wrote: http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=131 explains: "Principal differences between the VC-25 and the standard Boeing 747, other than the number of passengers carried, are the state of the art navigation, electronic and communications equipment, its interior configuration and furnishings, self-contained baggage loader, front and aft air-stairs, and the capability for in-flight refueling." I guess it'll take a drink mid-flight. They NEVER refuel a VC-25 with the President on board. Sure they do, I saw it in a movie once, so it has to be accurate ;) Back to top Trevor Fenn Guest Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 3:34 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii The VC-25's are equipped for in flight refuelling. "Frank" <frankxxx (AT) nowhere (DOT) com> wrote Quote: "Paul Blair" <pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au> wrote in message news:hidgpv8ugalva7ldmk67k82r85rjfd12mv (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Could a 747 take off from Canberra with enough fuel to do that? Or would it need a drink along the way? Paul Blair Canberra ------------------------------- Paul Blair [email]pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au[/email] I was wondering that myself. It did fly to HNL non-stop. Back to top Woodman Guest Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:18 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii "David Bromage" <dbromage (AT) omni (DOT) com.NOSPAMTHANKYOU.au> wrote Quote: Andrew Hennell wrote: http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=131 explains: "Principal differences between the VC-25 and the standard Boeing 747, other than the number of passengers carried, are the state of the art navigation, electronic and communications equipment, its interior configuration and furnishings, self-contained baggage loader, front and aft air-stairs, and the capability for in-flight refueling." I guess it'll take a drink mid-flight. They NEVER refuel a VC-25 with the President on board. I bet they would if they were running on fumes :) Back to top matt weber Guest Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 5:58 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:14:39 GMT, Paul Blair <pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au> wrote: Quote: The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Could a 747 take off from Canberra with enough fuel to do that? Or would it need a drink along the way? Paul Blair Canberra ------------------------------- Paul Blair [email]pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au[/email] CBR-HNL is about 5200 miles, so that's about 10 hours, or about 220,000 pounds of fuel. If you figure something around 480,000 pounds EW (which Boeing suggests is correct) , that allows for about 100,000 pounds of gear on top of a normal pax configuration. Not all that many people aboard usually, so figure something on the order of 740,000 pounds TOW, perhaps less. The aircraft has CF6-80C2's rated at 56,700 pounds each, which gives the aircart exceptional short field performance. (The largest engines certified for a 747-200B I believe are 53,000-54,000 pounds thrust (CF6-50E2B, JT9D-70A,JT9-7Q, RB211-524D). The combination of the relatively low TOW with the Big engines, probably puts the ruway requirement at about 2300 meters (The Boeing spec says 2500 meters at 750,000 pounds with RB211-524D's, which is more weight and less engine then the VC-25A has) Back to top matt weber Guest Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:37:27 GMT, Andrew Hennell <andrew (AT) hennell (DOT) com.au.com> wrote: Quote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:14:39 GMT, Paul Blair wrote: The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Could a 747 take off from Canberra with enough fuel to do that? Or would it need a drink along the way? Wouldn't really matter what it took off with. http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=131 explains: "Principal differences between the VC-25 and the standard Boeing 747, other than the number of passengers carried, are the state of the art navigation, electronic and communications equipment, its interior configuration and furnishings, self-contained baggage loader, front and aft air-stairs, and the capability for in-flight refueling." I guess it'll take a drink mid-flight. Could, but probably won't. The thumbnail for the trip suggests it isn't needed. The VC-25 has significantly oversize engines (57,900 pounds each), CF8-80C2B1, which are normally used on -300's that need maximum performance. I don't think the -80C2's are certified for use on the -200 Airframe the VC25 is based upon. The thumbnail from the probable TOW and the Big engines suggests it probably can fly out Canberra without a lot of difficulty for HNL, the US West Coast might be a real problem however, as it would add about 100,000 pounds to the fuel requirements and TOW. Back to top Nathan Chamberlain Guest Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii "matt weber" <mattheww50 (AT) cox (DOT) net> wrote Quote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:37:27 GMT, Andrew Hennell [email]andrew (AT) hennell (DOT) com.au.com[/email]> wrote: On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:14:39 GMT, Paul Blair wrote: The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Could a 747 take off from Canberra with enough fuel to do that? Or would it need a drink along the way? Wouldn't really matter what it took off with. http://www.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?fsID=131 explains: "Principal differences between the VC-25 and the standard Boeing 747, other than the number of passengers carried, are the state of the art navigation, electronic and communications equipment, its interior configuration and furnishings, self-contained baggage loader, front and aft air-stairs, and the capability for in-flight refueling." I guess it'll take a drink mid-flight. Could, but probably won't. The thumbnail for the trip suggests it isn't needed. The VC-25 has significantly oversize engines (57,900 pounds each), CF8-80C2B1, which are normally used on -300's that need maximum performance. I don't think the -80C2's are certified for use on the -200 Airframe the VC25 is based upon. The thumbnail from the probable TOW and the Big engines suggests it probably can fly out Canberra without a lot of difficulty for HNL, the US West Coast might be a real problem however, as it would add about 100,000 pounds to the fuel requirements and TOW. Could or did the UA 744 that carried the media and other hangers on go CBR -HNL nonstop? Nathan Back to top 1210 Guest Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii "GB" <gb (AT) sonicresearch (DOT) mailme.org> wrote Quote: Paul Blair <pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au> wrote in news:hidgpv8ugalva7ldmk67k82r85rjfd12mv (AT) 4ax (DOT) com: The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Did anyone notice whether they brought both of the AF1 747s this time, or just one? G Both. Different colours and different tail markings. Back to top Andrew Puddifer Guest Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 2:25 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii They fly to LA non stop don't they? I would think Honolulu would be a quick hop in one of them. Regards, Andrew. Frank wrote: Quote: "Paul Blair" <pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au> wrote in message news:hidgpv8ugalva7ldmk67k82r85rjfd12mv (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... The press noted that AF1 took off from Canberra and headed towards Hawaii. Could a 747 take off from Canberra with enough fuel to do that? Or would it need a drink along the way? Paul Blair Canberra ------------------------------- Paul Blair [email]pblair (AT) pcug (DOT) org.au[/email] I was wondering that myself. It did fly to HNL non-stop. Back to top Dave Proctor Guest Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:33 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 13:25:06 +1100, Andrew Puddifer <sideslip (AT) tpg (DOT) com.au> wrote: Quote: They fly to LA non stop don't they? I would think Honolulu would be a quick hop in one of them. Read the whole thread - the issue is not whether it has the range - that is a given. The issue is whether or not it can get off the ground from Canberra - short runway, high airfield, hot conditions - with sufficient fuel to do the distance. Dave ===== NSW Rural Fire Service - become a volunteer today. http://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/ Back to top David Bromage Guest Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One to Hawaii GB wrote: Quote: Last time I saw them both in the same place at the same time, they both looked pretty much identical. Another poster indicates that one was a 744. Care to elaborate on what acft actually did the job this time? Both VC-25s are 747-200s. There was a United 747-400 carrying the White House press corps. 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