AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Air Force One seen by BA pilot Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Aviators (General Discussions) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Milo Guest Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:37 pm    Post subject: Air Force One seen by BA pilot The news mentioned that while AF1 was enroute to Baghdad Int., a British Airways pilot saw AF1 and asked (on the horn) "is that AF1?". Then AF1s' pilot responded "No, it's a Gulfstream". At first I thought that was funny but then after thinking about it, I'm wordering how true this is. First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars? How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. ***I just thought of something as I was typing this, maybe there was no TFR because Pres. Bush "wasn't onboard" and it wouldn't have offically been AF1, as far as call sign and ATC goes, at the time.*** Secondly, if none of that is the case, why would the BA pilot would ask that question over the radio and what are the chances the 2 aircraft would be on the same freq.? Just wondering and speculating, not that it matters either way. If this did happen, the pilot of AF1 has a great way of saying "Shut the hell up man, this isn't what you think" wink wink. Very funny. Back to top Cub Driver Guest Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot Well, there are just two air-to-air freqs that I know of. Better yet, he could have called on the emergency freq, which all pilots must monitor if able. On 28 Nov 2003 10:37:39 -0800, [email]jfsoil (AT) whc (DOT) net[/email] (Milo) wrote: Quote: The news mentioned that while AF1 was enroute to Baghdad Int., a British Airways pilot saw AF1 and asked (on the horn) "is that AF1?". Then AF1s' pilot responded "No, it's a Gulfstream". At first I thought that was funny but then after thinking about it, I'm wordering how true this is. First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars? How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. ***I just thought of something as I was typing this, maybe there was no TFR because Pres. Bush "wasn't onboard" and it wouldn't have offically been AF1, as far as call sign and ATC goes, at the time.*** Secondly, if none of that is the case, why would the BA pilot would ask that question over the radio and what are the chances the 2 aircraft would be on the same freq.? Just wondering and speculating, not that it matters either way. If this did happen, the pilot of AF1 has a great way of saying "Shut the hell up man, this isn't what you think" wink wink. Very funny. all the best -- Dan Ford email: [email]cubdriver (AT) operamail (DOT) com[/email] see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com Back to top Bob Gardner Guest Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot The air-to-air freqs you refer to are not used in oceanic airspace...all transoceanic flights are talking to the appropriate oceanic controller on his/her discrete frequency. Use of this freq for plane-to-plane is not kosher, but not unusual, either. Bob gardner "Cub Driver" <pipercubforum (AT) eudoramail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Well, there are just two air-to-air freqs that I know of. Better yet, he could have called on the emergency freq, which all pilots must monitor if able. On 28 Nov 2003 10:37:39 -0800, [email]jfsoil (AT) whc (DOT) net[/email] (Milo) wrote: The news mentioned that while AF1 was enroute to Baghdad Int., a British Airways pilot saw AF1 and asked (on the horn) "is that AF1?". Then AF1s' pilot responded "No, it's a Gulfstream". At first I thought that was funny but then after thinking about it, I'm wordering how true this is. First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars? How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. ***I just thought of something as I was typing this, maybe there was no TFR because Pres. Bush "wasn't onboard" and it wouldn't have offically been AF1, as far as call sign and ATC goes, at the time.*** Secondly, if none of that is the case, why would the BA pilot would ask that question over the radio and what are the chances the 2 aircraft would be on the same freq.? Just wondering and speculating, not that it matters either way. If this did happen, the pilot of AF1 has a great way of saying "Shut the hell up man, this isn't what you think" wink wink. Very funny. all the best -- Dan Ford email: [email]cubdriver (AT) operamail (DOT) com[/email] see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com Back to top John Harper Guest Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 8:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot I know this is hard for a lot of people to comprehend, but actually US regulations only apply within the US. Hence an FAA TFR can only exist within US airspace. And luckily even the FAA doesn't (afaik) try to put a near-Mach-1 moving TFR around AF1 while it is actually flying, although there may be some separation provided behind the scenes by ATC. John "Milo" <jfsoil (AT) whc (DOT) net> wrote Quote: The news mentioned that while AF1 was enroute to Baghdad Int., a British Airways pilot saw AF1 and asked (on the horn) "is that AF1?". Then AF1s' pilot responded "No, it's a Gulfstream". At first I thought that was funny but then after thinking about it, I'm wordering how true this is. First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars? How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. ***I just thought of something as I was typing this, maybe there was no TFR because Pres. Bush "wasn't onboard" and it wouldn't have offically been AF1, as far as call sign and ATC goes, at the time.*** Secondly, if none of that is the case, why would the BA pilot would ask that question over the radio and what are the chances the 2 aircraft would be on the same freq.? Just wondering and speculating, not that it matters either way. If this did happen, the pilot of AF1 has a great way of saying "Shut the hell up man, this isn't what you think" wink wink. Very funny. Back to top Michael Nouak Guest Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot "Milo" <jfsoil (AT) whc (DOT) net> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:975185dc.0311281037.10028bfc (AT) posting (DOT) google.com... Quote: snip How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. huh? Back to top Robert Moore Guest Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot "Bob Gardner" wrote Quote: The air-to-air freqs you refer to are not used in oceanic airspace...all transoceanic flights are talking to the appropriate oceanic controller on his/her discrete frequency. Use of this freq for plane-to-plane is not kosher, but not unusual, either. For the 25 years that I flew trans-oceanic, whether the FAA or FCC approved it or not, 123.45 WAS Oceanic Common. I suspect that it still is. Not too many Radio Cops out there. :-) Bob Moore Back to top Big John Guest Posted: Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot Milo Long data article on Drudge. Part said he was in Stealth mode, no AF call sign, no escort, routing traffic and handling within system, nothing overt. Not just sure but may have turned navigation lights off at night??? etc., etc. Glad he made the trip. Troops got a boost. Shows he can move any place he wants without being stopped by any terrorist organization. Big John On 28 Nov 2003 10:37:39 -0800, [email]jfsoil (AT) whc (DOT) net[/email] (Milo) wrote: Quote: The news mentioned that while AF1 was enroute to Baghdad Int., a British Airways pilot saw AF1 and asked (on the horn) "is that AF1?". Then AF1s' pilot responded "No, it's a Gulfstream". At first I thought that was funny but then after thinking about it, I'm wordering how true this is. First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars? How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. ***I just thought of something as I was typing this, maybe there was no TFR because Pres. Bush "wasn't onboard" and it wouldn't have offically been AF1, as far as call sign and ATC goes, at the time.*** Secondly, if none of that is the case, why would the BA pilot would ask that question over the radio and what are the chances the 2 aircraft would be on the same freq.? Just wondering and speculating, not that it matters either way. If this did happen, the pilot of AF1 has a great way of saying "Shut the hell up man, this isn't what you think" wink wink. Very funny. Back to top BTIZ Guest Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 4:11 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot Words are he did turn out the lights for the night landing in Baghdad.. but I'm sure the lights were on when in other countries ATC system. BT "Big John" <BigJohn (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Milo Long data article on Drudge. Part said he was in Stealth mode, no AF call sign, no escort, routing traffic and handling within system, nothing overt. Not just sure but may have turned navigation lights off at night??? etc., etc. Glad he made the trip. Troops got a boost. Shows he can move any place he wants without being stopped by any terrorist organization. Big John On 28 Nov 2003 10:37:39 -0800, [email]jfsoil (AT) whc (DOT) net[/email] (Milo) wrote: The news mentioned that while AF1 was enroute to Baghdad Int., a British Airways pilot saw AF1 and asked (on the horn) "is that AF1?". Then AF1s' pilot responded "No, it's a Gulfstream". At first I thought that was funny but then after thinking about it, I'm wordering how true this is. First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars? How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. ***I just thought of something as I was typing this, maybe there was no TFR because Pres. Bush "wasn't onboard" and it wouldn't have offically been AF1, as far as call sign and ATC goes, at the time.*** Secondly, if none of that is the case, why would the BA pilot would ask that question over the radio and what are the chances the 2 aircraft would be on the same freq.? Just wondering and speculating, not that it matters either way. If this did happen, the pilot of AF1 has a great way of saying "Shut the hell up man, this isn't what you think" wink wink. Very funny. Back to top Cub Driver Guest Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot Quote: The air-to-air freqs you refer to are not used in oceanic airspace...all transoceanic flights are talking to the appropriate oceanic controller on his/her discrete frequency. Use of this freq for plane-to-plane is not kosher, but not unusual, either. Ah, I stand corrected! I wonder if Maurice Kirk knows this? He is planning to fly his Piper Cub from Australia to the U.S. next year. all the best -- Dan Ford email: [email]cubdriver (AT) operamail (DOT) com[/email] see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com Back to top Ben Dover Guest Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot Quote: How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. TFRs are US only. It is up to the Authorities in other countries to decide how to provide appropriate airspace protection. The evil empire does not have the power to install TFRs outside the US -yet. Back to top Jay Somerset Guest Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot On 28 Nov 2003 10:37:39 -0800, [email]jfsoil (AT) whc (DOT) net[/email] (Milo) wrote: Quote: The news mentioned that while AF1 was enroute to Baghdad Int., a British Airways pilot saw AF1 and asked (on the horn) "is that AF1?". Then AF1s' pilot responded "No, it's a Gulfstream". At first I thought that was funny but then after thinking about it, I'm wordering how true this is. First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars? How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. ***I just thought of something as I was typing this, maybe there was no TFR because Pres. Bush "wasn't onboard" and it wouldn't have offically been AF1, as far as call sign and ATC goes, at the time.*** Secondly, if none of that is the case, why would the BA pilot would ask that question over the radio and what are the chances the 2 aircraft would be on the same freq.? Just wondering and speculating, not that it matters either way. If this did happen, the pilot of AF1 has a great way of saying "Shut the hell up man, this isn't what you think" wink wink. Very funny. A tall tale. If another aircraft really had eyeballed "AF1" and called up as stated, the AF1 pilot would have just ignored the call. Also very unlikely that any other aircraft would be able to get into visual range -- AF1 would have deviated to maintain greater separation. They do have better than average radar, you know. :-) Back to top Martin Hotze Guest Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot On 28 Nov 2003 10:37:39 -0800, Milo wrote: Quote: First of all, did that BA pilot have binoculars? How did he see AF1 with the TFR in place, I assume they are in effect wherever AF1 goes in the world. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ *Aheeeem* the FAA only works within the US of A. And there are countries left with their own government and airspace. ;-) #m -- http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml Back to top Martin Hotze Guest Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot On Fri, 28 Nov 2003 17:19:24 -0600, Big John wrote: Quote: Glad he made the trip. Troops got a boost. Shows he can move any place he wants without being stopped by any terrorist organization. Hey! I went shopping today and I too wasn't stopped neither by police nor by terrorists. So who is responsible for this big improvement? *haha* #m -- http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml Back to top Gary Mishler Guest Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 3:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot "Jay Somerset" <jay (AT) no-fixed-abode (DOT) com> wrote Quote: A tall tale. If another aircraft really had eyeballed "AF1" and called up as stated, the AF1 pilot would have just ignored the call. It's been widely reported in both broadcast and print media and has been confirmed through gov't sources. Knight Ridder Newspapers even printed a quote from the AF1 captain. No one is trying to keep it a secret. Quote: Also very unlikely that any other aircraft would be able to get into visual range -- AF1 would have deviated to maintain greater separation. They do have better than average radar, you know. Many times over the years AF1 has been on the same center frequency as me. On more than one occasion I have "eyeballed" it inflight myself. Not really that unusual actually. Mish Back to top Big John Guest Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Air Force One seen by BA pilot Mish I thought center gave vertical and horizontal separation for birds on same over water route? Didn't they a few years ago reduce vertical separation from 2K to 1K if certain (new accurate alt measuring) equipment was on board the aircraft to increase (double) traffic density on the overseas routes? If flight was direct from way point to way point then I doubt if the birds came within visual range??? Would be an odd throw of the dice. That said, I can postulate a situation where two birds with a few thousand feet vertical clearance going the same direction on the same route and with different cruising speeds, slowly pass each other and BA be able to recognize the distinctive paint job on AF1. This in day light of course. BA upon landing and telling story (Gulf Stream) around Ops, someone would have called media (always some blabber mouth) and media would have added 99 and 99 and gotten 1 and broke the story someplace in the world from where it would have been picked up and gone like wildfire to everywhere. Now if the so called reply had been "Naw, we just got a special load of Thanksgiving 'turkeys' for the troops", might have been a better put off <G> Tale has a lot of characteristics of a good bar story (another double, bar keep) or news milking every story for a 'human interest' slant. Good show George. Big John On Sat, 29 Nov 2003 15:47:38 GMT, "Gary Mishler" <gmishlerSPAMNOT (AT) mchsi (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: "Jay Somerset" <jay (AT) no-fixed-abode (DOT) com> wrote in message news:2d8hsvs8tt29hpr3i78vi2q73jpednbuej (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... A tall tale. If another aircraft really had eyeballed "AF1" and called up as stated, the AF1 pilot would have just ignored the call. It's been widely reported in both broadcast and print media and has been confirmed through gov't sources. Knight Ridder Newspapers even printed a quote from the AF1 captain. No one is trying to keep it a secret. Also very unlikely that any other aircraft would be able to get into visual range -- AF1 would have deviated to maintain greater separation. They do have better than average radar, you know. :-) Many times over the years AF1 has been on the same center frequency as me. On more than one occasion I have "eyeballed" it inflight myself. Not really that unusual actually. 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