AirTalk.org Aviation discussions newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Affordable Safety Goto page 1, 2  Next          AirTalk.org Forum Index -> Planes, gliders and flying in Australia View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Coop Guest Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 6:49 am    Post subject: Affordable Safety Stumbled across this definition of "affordable safety" "All lives have equal value and that value is infinite. This means that because the Australian people only have a finite amount of money to spend on such issues as air safety, objectively based scientific risk analysis must be used to allocate the dollars so the maximum number of lives are saved." Not surprisingly, found this on DS's website: http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/Content.php?ContentID=370 Coop Back to top SR20GOER Guest Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:28 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety I do not disagree with the philosophy, however I need to reflect on the implementation. A private pilot flying a high performance single takes and expects a different level of risk, and creation and control of that risk, to that of a RPT passenger expecting to get on the "bus", ignore the safety brief, and get off safely at the other end without spilling the coffee in flight. I guess the scientific analysis needs a fairly broad base of factors. "Coop" <vhbdq (AT) chariotnose (DOT) netwheel.au> wrote Quote: Stumbled across this definition of "affordable safety" "All lives have equal value and that value is infinite. This means that because the Australian people only have a finite amount of money to spend on such issues as air safety, objectively based scientific risk analysis must be used to allocate the dollars so the maximum number of lives are saved." Not surprisingly, found this on DS's website: http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/Content.php?ContentID=370 Coop Back to top BB Guest Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety Coop wrote: Quote: Stumbled across this definition of "affordable safety" "All lives have equal value and that value is infinite. This means that because the Australian people only have a finite amount of money to spend on such issues as air safety, objectively based scientific risk analysis must be used to allocate the dollars so the maximum number of lives are saved." Not surprisingly, found this on DS's website: http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/Content.php?ContentID=370 Hmmm... how can the value of lives be "infinite" when there are always people looking at ways of doing safety on the cheap?... Regards, BB. Back to top Tailspin Guest Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety Here's another one for you to think about. "Tombstone Maintenance" Work out what it costs to do the maintenance or modification and compare that to what the insurance cost is if the "bus" goes in. If the insurance is cheaper don't do the maintenance jus pay the insurance and take the risk. "Coop" <vhbdq (AT) chariotnose (DOT) netwheel.au> wrote Quote: Stumbled across this definition of "affordable safety" "All lives have equal value and that value is infinite. This means that because the Australian people only have a finite amount of money to spend on such issues as air safety, objectively based scientific risk analysis must be used to allocate the dollars so the maximum number of lives are saved." Not surprisingly, found this on DS's website: http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/Content.php?ContentID=370 Coop Back to top Graeme Hogan Guest Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety "SR20GOER" <sr20goerDONTSPAM (AT) ozipilotsonline (DOT) com.au> wrote Quote: I do not disagree with the philosophy, however I need to reflect on the implementation. A private pilot flying a high performance single takes and expects a different level of risk, and creation and control of that risk, to that of a RPT passenger expecting to get on the "bus", ignore the safety brief, and get off safely at the other end without spilling the coffee in flight. But what if I'm the bus driver ?. Back to top BB Guest Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety Tailspin wrote: Quote: Here's another one for you to think about. "Tombstone Maintenance" Work out what it costs to do the maintenance or modification and compare that to what the insurance cost is if the "bus" goes in. If the insurance is cheaper don't do the maintenance jus pay the insurance and take the risk. Another book I suggest people read is "The Naked Pilot - Human Factors in Aircraft Accidents" by David Beaty... Despite what the title reads it is about more than pilots... There is a chapter in this book with that title... Regards, BB. Back to top SR20GOER Guest Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety Graeme Most RPT buses have two fans minimum and a higher level of redundant safety factor. Think of a PPL in a single at night - even worse over water or tiger country and taking the direct route - and I still believe it's a higher level of risk. Also, training wise, the bus driver is CPL or higher. Not to say the bus driver does not have worries, but I'm talking comparative. "Graeme Hogan" <ghogan01 (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote Quote: "SR20GOER" <sr20goerDONTSPAM (AT) ozipilotsonline (DOT) com.au> wrote in message news:42abe40e$0$14478$5a62ac22 (AT) per-qv1-newsreader-01 (DOT) iinet.net.au... I do not disagree with the philosophy, however I need to reflect on the implementation. A private pilot flying a high performance single takes and expects a different level of risk, and creation and control of that risk, to that of a RPT passenger expecting to get on the "bus", ignore the safety brief, and get off safely at the other end without spilling the coffee in flight. But what if I'm the bus driver ?. Back to top ventus45@hotmail.com Guest Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2005 1:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety Graeme Hogan wrote: But what if I'm the bus driver ?. They are only interested in the safety of the fare paying pax, not the hired help, or anyone else. Back to top Coop Guest Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety SR20GOER wrote: Quote: I do not disagree with the philosophy, however I need to reflect on the implementation. A private pilot flying a high performance single takes and expects a different level of risk, and creation and control of that risk, to that of a RPT passenger expecting to get on the "bus", ignore the safety brief, and get off safely at the other end without spilling the coffee in flight. I guess the scientific analysis needs a fairly broad base of factors. I'm inclined to agree- one accident in GA might mean one life lost. One accident in RPT usually means many lives lost. Not hard to see where the focus is needed. Coop Quote: "Coop" <vhbdq (AT) chariotnose (DOT) netwheel.au> wrote in message news:42ABDAF1.1000704 (AT) chariotnose (DOT) netwheel.au... Stumbled across this definition of "affordable safety" "All lives have equal value and that value is infinite. This means that because the Australian people only have a finite amount of money to spend on such issues as air safety, objectively based scientific risk analysis must be used to allocate the dollars so the maximum number of lives are saved." Not surprisingly, found this on DS's website: http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/Content.php?ContentID=370 Coop Back to top Coop Guest Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety BB wrote: Quote: Coop wrote: Stumbled across this definition of "affordable safety" "All lives have equal value and that value is infinite. This means that because the Australian people only have a finite amount of money to spend on such issues as air safety, objectively based scientific risk analysis must be used to allocate the dollars so the maximum number of lives are saved." Not surprisingly, found this on DS's website: http://www.dicksmithflyer.com.au/Content.php?ContentID=370 Hmmm... how can the value of lives be "infinite" when there are always people looking at ways of doing safety on the cheap?... Regards, BB. Wanna put a price on yours? Coop Back to top Coop Guest Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2005 2:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety BB wrote: Quote: Tailspin wrote: Here's another one for you to think about. "Tombstone Maintenance" Work out what it costs to do the maintenance or modification and compare that to what the insurance cost is if the "bus" goes in. If the insurance is cheaper don't do the maintenance jus pay the insurance and take the risk. Another book I suggest people read is "The Naked Pilot - Human Factors in Aircraft Accidents" by David Beaty... Despite what the title reads it is about more than pilots... There is a chapter in this book with that title... Regards, BB. Can't see it in my copy (1995) is there another edition? Which chapter were you referring to? Coop Back to top Graeme Hogan Guest Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:34 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety "SR20GOER" <sr20goerDONTSPAM (AT) ozipilotsonline (DOT) com.au> wrote Quote: Graeme Most RPT buses have two fans minimum and a higher level of redundant safety factor. I was being funny. I used to be a bus driver. Back to top SR20GOER Guest Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety Graeme Gotcher. I'm still new on this group and yet to catch up with "who's who in this zoo". Unfortunately if maintenance goes the way CASA tried with the latest NPRM it will only be via the big factories who can dedicate half the staff to paperwork which as we all know is what keeps aircraft airborne. The concept that I as a pilot with a mechanical background would need training to undertake even basic GA pilot maintenance is too funny to be serious. Also obviously means that the CASA syllabus and the competency based training must have churned out many dangerous pilots by their reasoning. Doesn't show up in the accident stats but since when should data influence reasoning. I stay off the buses - I'm a front seat phreak. "Graeme Hogan" <ghogan01 (AT) optusnet (DOT) com.au> wrote Quote: "SR20GOER" <sr20goerDONTSPAM (AT) ozipilotsonline (DOT) com.au> wrote in message news:42acb0dc$0$14475$5a62ac22 (AT) per-qv1-newsreader-01 (DOT) iinet.net.au... Graeme Most RPT buses have two fans minimum and a higher level of redundant safety factor. I was being funny. I used to be a bus driver. Back to top JB Guest Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety "SR20GOER" <sr20goerDONTSPAM (AT) ozipilotsonline (DOT) com.au> wrote Quote: I stay off the buses - I'm a front seat phreak. Good....they're occupied. JB Back to top BB Guest Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Affordable Safety Coop wrote: Quote: Can't see it in my copy (1995) is there another edition? Which chapter were you referring to? Coop Yeah... you're right, Coop... I guess that's what happens when you post without checking... Try "Black Box - Why Air Safety is No Accident" by Nicholas Faith.... Regards, BB. 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