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tony roberts
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 Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:43 am Post subject: ADF Problem |
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Hi
Today I was flying north and my ADF was tuned to an NDB.
The needle pointed at 330 degrees (or 11 O'clock) until I reached the
NDB, and then it swung until it pointed behind.
I dialed up the next NDB and it pointed at 330 again until passage.
And I dialed up another NDB - same indication - all of them wrong.
On the return trip - same indications.
It seems logical that the nav, ADF head and antenna are working because
I get a reading on station passage, but other than that, if I am tuned
to an NDB anywhere ahead of the aircraft the needle points at 11
O'clock.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Tony
--
[email]Indiacharlieecho (AT) hotmail (DOT) com[/email]
Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument 
Cessna 172H C-GICE
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NOSPAM@easily.co.uk
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:24 am Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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On Sun, 09 May 2004 05:43:35 GMT, tony roberts <nospam (AT) nowhere (DOT) ca>
wrote:
| Quote: | Hi
Today I was flying north and my ADF was tuned to an NDB.
The needle pointed at 330 degrees (or 11 O'clock) until I reached the
NDB, and then it swung until it pointed behind.
I dialed up the next NDB and it pointed at 330 again until passage.
And I dialed up another NDB - same indication - all of them wrong.
On the return trip - same indications.
It seems logical that the nav, ADF head and antenna are working because
I get a reading on station passage, but other than that, if I am tuned
to an NDB anywhere ahead of the aircraft the needle points at 11
O'clock.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Tony
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What was your crab angle, 30deg?
E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot [email]2004 (AT) lochaber-physio (DOT) co.uk[/email]
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David Megginson
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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tony roberts wrote:
| Quote: | It seems logical that the nav, ADF head and antenna are working because
I get a reading on station passage, but other than that, if I am tuned
to an NDB anywhere ahead of the aircraft the needle points at 11
O'clock.
Any ideas?
|
When you do a 360-degree turn, does the needle stay at 330 all the way
around, or does it turn as the aircraft turns?
All the best,
David
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TaxSrv
Guest
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| Posted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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"Mike Spera" wrote:
| Quote: | ... Many of these units use discrete (individual) electronic
components, AND most of these units are quite old. Certain
capacitors in
these units shift their electronic values over time, causing changes
in
the circuitry's operation. Hence, they need to be realigned every
now
and then.
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Per three ADF service manuals I have, there actually isn't any
alignment procedure to adjust pointer indication. You are correct in
that the installation may need trimmed out, but for example in one
ADF, you remove a mounting screw on the indicator unit and tweak
something with a supplied tool. In another, you loosen and physically
twist the goniometer (what magnetically makes the needle move). Those
adj. are worth only a few degrees, though.
If there's a combined loop/sense antenna, it may have active circuitry
inside which can also have a defective component, but it may not be
field repairable. However, cleanliness and security of the loop
antenna connections is one thing to check in any case. Beyond that,
some component(s) somewhere is likely defective if a 30-deg error.
Fred F.
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Matt Whiting
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:05 am Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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tony roberts wrote:
| Quote: | Hi
Today I was flying north and my ADF was tuned to an NDB.
The needle pointed at 330 degrees (or 11 O'clock) until I reached the
NDB, and then it swung until it pointed behind.
I dialed up the next NDB and it pointed at 330 again until passage.
And I dialed up another NDB - same indication - all of them wrong.
On the return trip - same indications.
It seems logical that the nav, ADF head and antenna are working because
I get a reading on station passage, but other than that, if I am tuned
to an NDB anywhere ahead of the aircraft the needle points at 11
O'clock.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Tony
|
Did you have any portable electronic devices with you that you haven't
carried before? If so, could be interference. If not, then it sounds
like your ADF is going bad.
Matt
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Mike Wylde
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 8:01 am Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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"tony roberts" <nospam (AT) nowhere (DOT) ca> wrote
| Quote: | Hi
Today I was flying north and my ADF was tuned to an NDB.
The needle pointed at 330 degrees (or 11 O'clock) until I reached the
NDB, and then it swung until it pointed behind.
I dialed up the next NDB and it pointed at 330 again until passage.
And I dialed up another NDB - same indication - all of them wrong.
On the return trip - same indications.
It seems logical that the nav, ADF head and antenna are working because
I get a reading on station passage, but other than that, if I am tuned
to an NDB anywhere ahead of the aircraft the needle points at 11
O'clock.
Any ideas?
Thanks
Tony
--
[email]Indiacharlieecho (AT) hotmail (DOT) com[/email]
Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE
|
I had a remarkably similar problem with an old Bendix unit.
It turned out to be a short inside a connector, grounding one point of the
loop aerial. (The connector had been put together with no washer under one
of the screws holding the body and the slight extra projection had brought
the screw in contact with a sleeved soldered terminal pin and over the years
it had rubbed its way through the sleeve until it shorted!)
I suggest you carefully check everything on the loop antenna circuitry
outside the unit before sending it off for checking.
Mike
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Kevin Chandler
Guest
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| Posted: Mon May 10, 2004 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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I had a similar problem. In my case, the needle would always point at 60
degrees until I was on top of the NDB then the needle would "seek" the
station. Once I got beyond 2-3 miles from the NDB, it would go back to 60
degrees. I later determined that it only happened when the strobes were on.
Come to find out, the power supply for the right strobe (located in the
front of the right wing) was leaking interference. The ADF seeked the
interference unless the NDB signal was very strong. I suspect was you have
a similar problem. It should not be much of a problem for a radio shop to
figure it out. Muncie (MIE) Indiana found my problem in about 15 minutes.
Kevin Chandler
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tony roberts
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 2:37 am Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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Thanks very much for all the advice.
It looks as though loop antenna is most likely, with radio interference
as the second most likely. I'll fly it with everything shut off to see
if the problem persists, to help narrow it further.
To respond to the questions that were in some responses,
if a fly a 360 the needle tracks the NDB if I am near it, but not if I
am several miles away.
Nospam asked if my crab angle was 30 degrees. No. If the NDB were ahead
of the nose the needle pointed at 330, regardless of whether the NDB was
at 300 degrees or 40 degrees.
Thanks again for all the advice - I'll post the solution when I have it
Tony
--
[email]Indiacharlieecho (AT) hotmail (DOT) com[/email]
Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE
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TaxSrv
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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"Mike Spera" wrote:
| Quote: | That was my point, although I may not have been clear. There is no
"adjustment" for the pointer as you said. However, there is an
alignment
process that tunes the oscillators and other procedures. Once done,
any
drift due to aging of the (usually tantalum) capacitors may be
worked
out so that the unit will operate and point properly.
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That's just not how ADF circuits typically work. I think you're
making all this up. Otherwise, you'd understand how the "oscillators"
work when they're commonly digital PLL's, and that if a receiver did
alignment, it sure ain't gonna be due to "drifting tantalum caps," as
if they are especially prone to do that in the first place.
Fred F.
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David Megginson
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 1:36 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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tony roberts wrote:
| Quote: | To respond to the questions that were in some responses,
if a fly a 360 the needle tracks the NDB if I am near it, but not if I
am several miles away.
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I had some similar problems with the Narco ADF 841. It wouldn't lock onto
anything more than a few miles away until the radio had been on for an hour
or so. I sent it in for repair, the shop tested it and replaced two
capacitors, and now it works perfectly.
A one-hour bench-test of your ADF at a good avionics shop is probably the
cheapest place to start -- just yank it out yourself and mail or drive it
in. You're right that the problem could be the antenna or connections, but
it will take longer to test those (and most shops don't even have proper
equipment for ramp-testing an ADF antenna and cables the way they can
ramp-test a VOR antenna and cables), so you might as well rule out the radio
first: besides, you won't have to ground your plane while the radio's being
tested, unless you need it for a specific IFR approach.
All the best,
David
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NOSPAM@easily.co.uk
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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On Tue, 11 May 2004 02:37:46 GMT, tony roberts <nospam (AT) nowhere (DOT) ca>
wrote:
| Quote: | Thanks very much for all the advice.
It looks as though loop antenna is most likely, with radio interference
as the second most likely. I'll fly it with everything shut off to see
if the problem persists, to help narrow it further.
To respond to the questions that were in some responses,
if a fly a 360 the needle tracks the NDB if I am near it, but not if I
am several miles away.
Nospam asked if my crab angle was 30 degrees. No. If the NDB were ahead
of the nose the needle pointed at 330, regardless of whether the NDB was
at 300 degrees or 40 degrees.
Thanks again for all the advice - I'll post the solution when I have it
Tony
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As has alrady been suggested it may be interference, since it works
close to the NDB.
You say ' the needle tracks the NDB if I am near' so have you listened
to the audio out of the ADF receiver? Maybe you can identify some
interference.
Sounds like a similar problem, we had, which was due to alternator
noise (a whining noise which varies with engine RPM). In our case an
alternator decoupling capacitor had not been fitted with the
replacement alternator which did not have an inbuilt suppressor.
E-mail (Remove Space after pilot): pilot [email]2004 (AT) lochaber-physio (DOT) co.uk[/email]
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Everett M. Greene
Guest
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| Posted: Tue May 11, 2004 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: ADF Problem |
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[email]NOSPAM (AT) easily (DOT) co.uk[/email] writes:
[snip]
| Quote: | As has alrady been suggested it may be interference, since it works
close to the NDB.
You say ' the needle tracks the NDB if I am near' so have you listened
to the audio out of the ADF receiver? Maybe you can identify some
interference.
Sounds like a similar problem, we had, which was due to alternator
noise (a whining noise which varies with engine RPM). In our case an
alternator decoupling capacitor had not been fitted with the
replacement alternator which did not have an inbuilt suppressor.
|
Onboard interference source sounds very likely. The ADF
may even be giving a clue as to the general direction of
the interference source from the antennas and may help
isolate it. [Note the "may" in the statement.]
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