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active tail steering

 
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easy raski
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: active tail steering Reply with quote



red,
I've seen the PHYN invention. That's not what I mean.
Did your friend try a bigger PHYN, attached horizontally to the harness?
It would be intersting to see the differences in flight behavior.
If you ask me. I think the problem's not the lack of power, but the
insufficient or missing application of it.
any tailless eagle couldn't fly either. The hang glider is just a damn
lasting interstage to real flight (from point A to point B). someone's got
to do something about it.

"red" <read (AT) xmission (DOT) com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:432D758C.A836C815 (AT) xmission (DOT) com...
Quote:
Georg,
In Utah, USA, we fly the Rocky Mountains. Here is the invention
of a good friend of mine; he calls it PHYN (pronounced "Fin"). A
four hour HG flight would not be noteworthy here, so wind-tunnel
testing is simply not needed.
http://www.xmission.com/~jmr/HANGLIDE/PHYN/PHYN.HTM
Propulsion would not be practical for HG flight, because the
human body can barely produce enough horsepower to sustain flight
at sea level, and certainly not enough to climb to any
significant altitude. Investigate the work of Paul McReady (with
Bryan Allen pedaling) using the Gossamer Condor and the Gossamer
Albatross. These aircraft had the wingspan of an airliner, and
they were too flimsy to fly except in very calm air. They also
cost about the same as a house. Human-powered flight was a great
experiment, but it is impossible for the average pilot, without
generous industrial sponsorship.
It is much more fun to challenge the strong lift of soarable
air, with a HG that (literally) a truck can not break Smile You
can fly beyond the limits of oxygen, thus; the prolonged effort
needed to do that with muscle power alone is unthinkable.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red
************************
P.S. Not relevant, but...
Free advice, and maybe worth the price,
for new and low-time HG pilots,
at my website:
http://www.xmission.com/~red/

easy raski wrote:
Why has this not been tested yet in the widtunnel?: the tail attached
to
the Harness?

I think this would add possibilities: You could steer actively with your
body (like birds), or maybe propulse in the way like when swimming
butterfly
style.





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easy raski
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:24 am    Post subject: active tail steering Reply with quote





Why has this not been tested yet in the widtunnel?: the tail attached to
the Harness?

I think this would add possibilities: You could steer actively with your
body (like birds), or maybe propulse in the way like when swimming butterfly
style.




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red
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:11 pm    Post subject: Re: active tail steering Reply with quote

Georg,
In Utah, USA, we fly the Rocky Mountains. Here is the invention
of a good friend of mine; he calls it PHYN (pronounced "Fin"). A
four hour HG flight would not be noteworthy here, so wind-tunnel
testing is simply not needed.
http://www.xmission.com/~jmr/HANGLIDE/PHYN/PHYN.HTM
Propulsion would not be practical for HG flight, because the
human body can barely produce enough horsepower to sustain flight
at sea level, and certainly not enough to climb to any
significant altitude. Investigate the work of Paul McReady (with
Bryan Allen pedaling) using the Gossamer Condor and the Gossamer
Albatross. These aircraft had the wingspan of an airliner, and
they were too flimsy to fly except in very calm air. They also
cost about the same as a house. Human-powered flight was a great
experiment, but it is impossible for the average pilot, without
generous industrial sponsorship.
It is much more fun to challenge the strong lift of soarable
air, with a HG that (literally) a truck can not break Smile You
can fly beyond the limits of oxygen, thus; the prolonged effort
needed to do that with muscle power alone is unthinkable.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red
************************
P.S. Not relevant, but...
Free advice, and maybe worth the price,
for new and low-time HG pilots,
at my website:
http://www.xmission.com/~red/

easy raski wrote:
Quote:
Why has this not been tested yet in the widtunnel?: the tail attached to
the Harness?

I think this would add possibilities: You could steer actively with your
body (like birds), or maybe propulse in the way like when swimming butterfly
style.

Back to top
red
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2005 6:18 pm    Post subject: Re: active tail steering Reply with quote

Georg,
I have never seen a horizontal PHYN, and can not see any
practical use for something like that. I now have over 2000
hours flying these tailless aircraft, in these last thirty years.
http://www.xmission.com/~red/history/history.htm
You do indeed turn, bank, dive and pull up in a HG by steering
actively with your body. If triple loops and turns banked well
past 90 degrees are not sufficient demonstrations of flight
control, then I have to ask what you would require. Even the
ultralight sailplanes are not -fully- aerobatic.
Point A to point B? Locally, the Utah HG Cup is awarded for the
longest HG flight of each year in Utah. Since 1981, it usually
requires a flight in excess of 100 miles (160 km) to have any
chance of winning the Utah Cup. Check this:
http://flytec.com/news.html
Summarized: Several years ago, Mike Barber flew 437 miles (703
km) for the open distance record. The longest flight to a
pre-announced goal is 321 miles (516 km), by Pete Lehmann and
Mike Barber.
I would ask again, what do you require here? Please keep in
mind that I can easily transport five such wings on my car, and
carry one complete HG in a 6m bag on one shoulder.
The horsepower limits of the human body are real and
quantifiable. If you can come up with anything approaching
human-powered flight, certified to six Gees positive and four
Gees negative (about the average for HGs), there is an entire
community of HG pilots who will happily make you very rich.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red
************************
P.S. Not relevant, but...
Free advice, and maybe worth the price,
for new and low-time HG pilots,
at my website:
http://www.xmission.com/~red/

easy raski wrote:
Quote:
red,
I've seen the PHYN invention. That's not what I mean.
Did your friend try a bigger PHYN, attached horizontally to the harness?
It would be intersting to see the differences in flight behavior.
If you ask me. I think the problem's not the lack of power, but the
insufficient or missing application of it.
any tailless eagle couldn't fly either. The hang glider is just a damn
lasting interstage to real flight (from point A to point B). someone's got
to do something about it.

"red" <read (AT) xmission (DOT) com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:432D758C.A836C815 (AT) xmission (DOT) com...
Georg,
In Utah, USA, we fly the Rocky Mountains. Here is the invention
of a good friend of mine; he calls it PHYN (pronounced "Fin"). A
four hour HG flight would not be noteworthy here, so wind-tunnel
testing is simply not needed.
http://www.xmission.com/~jmr/HANGLIDE/PHYN/PHYN.HTM
Propulsion would not be practical for HG flight, because the
human body can barely produce enough horsepower to sustain flight
at sea level, and certainly not enough to climb to any
significant altitude. Investigate the work of Paul McReady (with
Bryan Allen pedaling) using the Gossamer Condor and the Gossamer
Albatross. These aircraft had the wingspan of an airliner, and
they were too flimsy to fly except in very calm air. They also
cost about the same as a house. Human-powered flight was a great
experiment, but it is impossible for the average pilot, without
generous industrial sponsorship.
It is much more fun to challenge the strong lift of soarable
air, with a HG that (literally) a truck can not break Smile You
can fly beyond the limits of oxygen, thus; the prolonged effort
needed to do that with muscle power alone is unthinkable.
--
(Replies *will* bounce, unless you delete
the letter A from my email address)
Cheers,
Red

easy raski wrote:
Why has this not been tested yet in the widtunnel?: the tail attached
to
the Harness?

I think this would add possibilities: You could steer actively with your
body (like birds), or maybe propulse in the way like when swimming
butterfly
style.

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